we're too caught in wayne lapierre and rhetoric, to me nra is about buying and selling guns, not about second amendment and gun safety. we should focus on the issues. >> trafficking of guns. >> the leadership of the nra represent the gun lobby and those folks invested in selling more guns. i don't think they're interested protecting the second amendment rights. obviously lapierre as spokesperson has not given enough compass nat narrative to the kinds of things happening in mass shootings and chicago, and at the end of the day we need a conversation sans nra. i agree their power is a little overstated and this is a moment to move the conversation forward towards gun safety. >> and we said time and time again, salcalia, clarence thoma alito and conservatives in 2008 gave americans the second amendment right that we always believe we conservatives always believe was contained inside the second amendment. >> right. >> you don't need wayne lapierre out there now doing it for you. i wonder why they don't let david king go. because lapierre is such - such -- lapierre is such a nightmare. almo